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To be honest, if someone buys a car expecting WLTP to be accurate, they are off their rocker. It is like expecting V6 gas engine to get advertised gas mileage. Yes, you can make it work (I do) and exceed that, but for an average driver, it is unachievable. I find that the EPA ratings are much closer to reality. eTron is 2.2 m/kWh EPA rated and that falls much closer to expected range for your regular drivers who move from ICE and will drive with the foot on accelerator all the time.
 

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I think I would be disappointed if I only got 2.2 m/kWh (which would give a range of 2.2 x 86.5 = 190 miles) but I certainly take your point.

We will all have our own personal experiences which will very much depend on the type of motoring we need to do but 190 miles would be very disappointing.

Personally I am getting an average of 2.6 m/kWh over 1,500 miles in coolish (but certainly not winter temperature) weather. This gives me around 230 miles at 100% which I am happy with.

Yes, I have seen the 3+ figures mentioned but I have not experienced them. To get the 270 mile range you would need 3.1 m/kWh which seems pretty unachievable without going to extraordinary lengths.

What Chrisechild calls "the default 'pre-baked' efficiency" is really only there for collection day, it has no purpose other than to make the car look good.
 

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Sorry didnt make myself clear. The 100% we see is not the full 100% of the battery - ie there is leeway each end to protect the battery life. However, when receiving the car brand new showing 270 miles is the FULL 100% 95kwh charge in it having left the factory and only done a few miles for delivery.

Then when the customer starts to charge the machine having used it...the limits are in place so whilst we see 100% its actually the 86kwH we see as 100%.
To avoid confusion all my comments have related to the usable battery. So yes, charging to 86.5 kWh is effectively 100%
 

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People love their numbers, even if they are completely ridiculous and detached from reality. In Europe, cars are sold with sticker fuel consumption of 3.9 l/100km for 2 liter TDI engine. Sure, you can get there if you drive 30 mph in a wind tunnel. You take a car on a run and the actual consumption is closer to 7-8 l/100km. At least EPA ratings is closer to reality, something I do appreciate honestly. Not ideal, but much closer to everyday driver experience.

GOM in eTron should have a massive warning that is an estimate only. My dealership has constantly dissatisfied customers who look at GOM and complain that it is not what was on the sticker. Sure, dooh. You have been racing again, Mr customer, haven't you? No wonder, your GOM shows you're at 1.5 m/kWh.
 

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There are also safety and fire concerns when it is shipped from Europe overseas. I would be surprised if the cars were even charged to 80% for shipping.
Li-ion batteries are typically shipped at 30% to 40%. Longer life, less fire concern, etc.


People love their numbers, even if they are completely ridiculous and detached from reality.
Want to see 270 miles on the GOM, or perhaps even more? Would take some time, but I'd be fairly sure that this would work.

Find a flat loop with few or no stops and a speed limit of ~35 MPH or 55 KHM on a pleasant day. Drive the loop driving smooth and easy at the speed limit or even below, use a large fraction of the battery, and I'd bet you would get better than 3.4 miles/kWh or 5.5km/kWh or 29kWh/100 mile or 18.2kWh/100km. On some short round trips I've seen about 2.8 miles/kWh or 35kWh/100 miles, with stop signs, traffic lights and hills. As the GOM sees more travel with great economy in the history, it is going to increase the estimated range on a full charge. Might need multiple days of this. How far it increases would be interesting to see.
 

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The power of marketing is awesome in cases like this. I agree, I'd rather see the actual readout, not some made up number. I guess there should be a switch somewhere to turn it into an ideal, Tesla mode :)
 

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The irony here is that the GOM in the e-tron seems to actually be closer to accurate. If anything, the warning sticker should read "unlike your buddy's Tesla, we at least try to estimate your range instead of just make stuff up"
I agree, it's pretty accurate.

Happy with the 230 miles range at 100% that I get.

In fact pretty happy all round.

It's just annoying that they designed the car to 'pretend' 270 miles when you pick the car up. Unnecessary on a car which stands up well to comparison in it's own right - without 'fiddling' the figures.
 

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It's just annoying that they designed the car to 'pretend' 270 miles when you pick the car up. Unnecessary on a car which stands up well to comparison in it's own right - without 'fiddling' the figures.
It sells cars, and likely disappoints some as well. I agree, the range is not everything and sellers should do a better job explaining the driving style needed to make this car work, etc. They do not. It is push the sale and move on. I was lucky enough to have had eTron on longer test drive before I pulled the trigger so I knew what to expect and how to drive it before I got into my own.
 

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It's just annoying that they designed the car to 'pretend' 270 miles when you pick the car up.
I'm not convinced they have designed the car to pretend 270 miles as much as it just being a byproduct of the algorithm that calculates things out.



As an aside, mine didn't say 270 miles when I got it, but it also had a couple dozen miles on it from people test driving it.
 

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I agree with everything said.

My point earlier was that perhaps the algorithm at point of sale is simply using what it can to make a prediction as opposed to a marketing thing (afterall, they've already sold you the thing).

i.e. algorithm says ok my default efficiency of 2.9m/kWh as per WLTP due to not having any humans drive me yet
Oh and its nice and warm in this showroom.
And my battery is warm from a charge just now.

Therefore I will be able to hit 3.12m/kWh.

A naive perspective on it, granted, but I don't understand why Audi would set the GOM to anything else. Besides I think others have seen different figures on the GOM from new.
 

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To be honest, if someone buys a car expecting WLTP to be accurate, they are off their rocker. It is like expecting V6 gas engine to get advertised gas mileage. Yes, you can make it work (I do) and exceed that, but for an average driver, it is unachievable. I find that the EPA ratings are much closer to reality. eTron is 2.2 m/kWh EPA rated and that falls much closer to expected range for your regular drivers who move from ICE and will drive with the foot on accelerator all the time.
Are you sure about that 2.2 m/kWh to achieve the EPA rating? Unless my math is wrong, at least on a 2021 Sportback, I'd need 2.5 m/kWh (218/86.5=2.52)

The 2.5 is certainly an achievable number, but even there one must exercise some restraint with the accelerator...at least in my area (NY).
 

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LOL, so here comes the stupid EPA calculation magic. They seem to assume whole battery is available, so ... yes, with actual battery capacity, we'd need ~2.4 m/kWh to get 204 mile range in 2019 model. But if you were to use 95 kWh battery size, required efficiency dips to 2.15 m/kWh. I hate these hidden assumptions.
 

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Sorry didnt make myself clear. The 100% we see is not the full 100% of the battery - ie there is leeway each end to protect the battery life. However, when receiving the car brand new showing 270 miles is the FULL 100% 95kwh charge in it having left the factory and only done a few miles for delivery.

Then when the customer starts to charge the machine having used it...the limits are in place so whilst we see 100% its actually the 86kwH we see as 100%.
For 2021 models, when you see the reading "100% State of Charge" it is actually at 98% of full battery capacity. By design to protect the battery, the car NEVER fills up that last 2%.
 

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I would be interested in the details of how EPA and WLTP test EV's. How do you compare a Tesla, which is always engaged in "recuperative" driving, with an E Tron, which can coast along like a multi-ton bicycle?
 

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I would be interested in the details of how EPA and WLTP test EV's
Be prepared to go down a deep rabbit hole when you determine that the tests aren't really even standardized and different tests allow them to use different adjustment factors, etc
 

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I started reading EPA paperwork, at least the official public version of it. I am sure there is also some more exposed to car manufacturers only. It is a mess, with requirements peppered with exceptions and vendor-specific addons. I do not think it is really truly standardized, outside of the conditions under the which the car is supposed to be tested. Apart from the result (range in miles), I doubt testing a Tesla can be compared to eTron testing.
 
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