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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having owned a Tesla and going to an e-tron I found it a lot more convenient having the OTA updates done when I’m connected to a wifi signal at home than having to bring it into the service center. Does anyone have details if Audi plans to have this done at all. I feel like I’m missing all the important software tweaks they do if I’m not bringing the car in. And since we all know the electronics is still buggy. It will need more software updates in the near future
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No plans at all for the time being. OTA is for maps only.
They should invest in the infrastructure to make it happen if they want to be competitive in the EV game. We live in a software world where everyone has a smartphone/iphone/android and they get corrections OTA. The younger generations will not put up with it and will just go to a Tesla.
 

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It is not infrastructure ... the claim is that they want critical updates to be done under controlled conditions, in case something does go wrong. Claim, not my argument mind you. I do not see any problems with OTA and there are many mechanisms to assure this does not brick the car. In telco world, remote updates are common and there are common mechanisms to prevent problems, including timed roll backs, commit checks, breakpoints, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It is not infrastructure ... the claim is that they want critical updates to be done under controlled conditions, in case something does go wrong. Claim, not my argument mind you. I do not see any problems with OTA and there are many mechanisms to assure this does not brick the car. In telco world, remote updates are common and there are common mechanisms to prevent problems, including timed roll backs, commit checks, breakpoints, etc.
I never had 1 issue with OTA on my Tesla so Audi just didnt design the car to be software centric.
 

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It is not infrastructure ... the claim is that they want critical updates to be done under controlled conditions, in case something does go wrong. Claim, not my argument mind you. I do not see any problems with OTA and there are many mechanisms to assure this does not brick the car. In telco world, remote updates are common and there are common mechanisms to prevent problems, including timed roll backs, commit checks, breakpoints, etc.
This assumes that the hardware is set up for it though and that these safeguards are in place. The most critical ones are usually firmware updates where things can get bricked. If there is no fail-safe in place, the device/car will get bricked if the update fails or gets interrupted. There may be ways to fix it after it got bricked, but usually not through the software directly or an OTA update. I do not know how Audi set up the MMI and whether there are enough safeguards in place on the hardware side.
 

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There are still independent memory banks so at least two software images (previous good and new one) can be stored and switched between as needed. All it takes is separation of the configuration space from application space and making the bootloader system independent. I do not have time and patience to dig into this at any length but it could be examined externally without interfering into the overall system.
Either way, as @ElectricRiderNJ said, Audi did not design it with OTA in mind from get go and now it will hard to rewrite the whole system with proper modularization in mind.
 

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There are still independent memory banks so at least two software images (previous good and new one) can be stored and switched between as needed. All it takes is separation of the configuration space from application space and making the bootloader system independent. I do not have time and patience to dig into this at any length but it could be examined externally without interfering into the overall system.
Either way, as @ElectricRiderNJ said, Audi did not design it with OTA in mind from get go and now it will hard to rewrite the whole system with proper modularization in mind.
Yes, I absolutely agree. But that was exactly my point. You have to put these safeguards in place (such as dual memory storage for the firmware) or otherwise things will fail. If you look at old computer mainboards, this was not always available and you could very easily ruin it when updating the BIOS. If you were lucky it had the BIOS chip on a socket and you could replace the EPROM (I guess I am showing my age now ;) ). I realize that many of these safeguards are common practice these days. But so is testing and debugging software...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, I absolutely agree. But that was exactly my point. You have to put these safeguards in place (such as dual memory storage for the firmware) or otherwise things will fail. If you look at old computer mainboards, this was not always available and you could very easily ruin it when updating the BIOS. If you were lucky it had the BIOS chip on a socket and you could replace the EPROM (I guess I am showing my age now ;-) ). I realize that having many of these safeguards are common practice these days. But so is testing and debugging software...
What i liked about my tesla was that for a hard reset i only had to push a few buttons and a pedal to reset if anything froze or acted screwy. Not sure its that simple on the e-Tron.
 

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I would be surprised if that was not accounted for already and the only reason why OTA was not supported was the extortion model by dealerships. It might simply part of the agreement between Audi and dealerships, resulting in extra income for dealerships. They will not want to give up on this source of income.
 

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What i liked about my tesla was that for a hard reset i only had to push a few buttons and a pedal to reset if anything froze or acted screwy. Not sure its that simple on the e-Tron.
If you hold down the volume knob for 10 seconds, it will reset the MMI. That seems to be as close to a full reset as I can think of. The difference, though, is that Tesla only uses a single computer for the entire car whereas Audi has all sorts of "compute units" all over the car communicating with each other over the CAN bus.
 

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I would be surprised if that was not accounted for already and the only reason why OTA was not supported was the extortion model by dealerships. It might simply part of the agreement between Audi and dealerships, resulting in extra income for dealerships. They will not want to give up on this source of income.
That certainly sounds very plausible to me. On the other hand, they kind of pressed the dealerships with the ID.4 by changing the way it is ordered. But I am not sure what the exact reimbursement model for the dealer is there.
 

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Every time they take the car for firmware upgrade, they charge Audi for it. Even though it is free for the customer, there is money changing hands on the back end of the process. Dealership does not work for free.
 

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Every time they take the car for firmware upgrade, they charge Audi for it. Even though it is free for the customer, there is money changing hands on the back end of the process. Dealership does not work for free.
Sorry, poor wording on my part. I was referring to the way dealers get paid when one buys an ID.4.
 

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I did read back in 2019, before I got my E Tron, an article about issues with OTA's. The biggest issue seemed to be that, yes, the Etron is not "software centric" in the sense that pretty much EVERYTHING is controlled through a touch screen. With all the buttons and switches sharing functionality in the E Tron, accomplishing an OTA and being able to verify it is a lot more complicated.

Myself, I won't bug them much about OTA's until they fix MyAudi app performance.
 

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meh, I use the car for driving first and foremost. App is nice to have but apart from long term consumption monitoring, it is not a big ticket for my daily usage. I could download the long term usage off the car if it supported storing logs.
 

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3 days download, update prep next 3 days :) I can dig that for sure. Reminds me of dialup modems (yes, I am that old) ...
 

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I never had 1 issue with OTA on my Tesla so Audi just didnt design the car to be software centric.
I really had no issues either with OTA updates from Tesla...except when they throttled back my range & charging speeds at SCs. With Audi I did my research and knew in advance that they didn't do OTA updates. It wasn't a significant enough factor to deter me from buying the car. The e-Tron is, IMO, a far superior car in so many ways to my late Tesla.
 
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