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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

For people who already have the car - are you charging often beyond 80% and did you notice any ‘degradation’?

I only have 4k km (delivered in August 2022) but did charge it beyond 80% maybe 5-6 times for various reasons. At the beginning it usually shown 347km range with 80% but now gets only to 300km. This is, however, most likely influenced also because I recently changed to winter tires and the avg long term consumption (for whole 4k km) jumped from 17.8 to above 18kwh/100km and in recent 2 weeks I also drove non standard routes. I know that the range calculation is not precise, but since it decreased that heavily (347 to 300) am wondering if charging beyond 80% could really have such significant effect on battery.

What is your experience? Maybe also for people who had their car already last winter - how significant is increase of consumption in winter? 5/10/20%?

Thank you and safe driving everybody!
 

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Mmm... Not too sure about that calculation.

At step 1 it says "You drive 169 miles with consumption of 2.6 miles/kWh.". How would you know your consumption was 2.6 miles/kWh? From the readout on the display? If so, then what is being used as an average would not necessarily correlate with 169 miles. In fact it is unlikely to do so as conditions will change.

An example to prove this point is to consider the case where it is a cooler day. Now you get 2.4 miles/kWh which gives 169./ 2.0 = 70.4kWh in total.

This gives a total capacity of 89kWh as the actual capacity which would imply a fantastic battery but actually tells you nothing as it is the same battery.

Of course, one might argue that for the battery in the example it would not be possible to get 169 miles at 2.4 miles/kWh which would possibly be true but then you have two unknown variables so the calculation is meaningless.

If you could stage identical drives in identical conditions to compare over time then it would theoretically be possible to do this calculation but in practice the differences that you are trying to measure are small relative to the possible errors implicit in the technique. Stick the car on a rolling road in a temperature controlled environment then maybe but for most real-world situations the measurement will be subjective at best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah looked at that calculation and it seems a bit overkill. But I guess it is easier to just calculate based on energy charged - if you eg charge between 60-80% and you charge 20kwh that kind of gives you the total capacity of 100 (if 20% = 20kwh then 100%=100kwh). If one kept track of all charges and percentages (start/stop charging) then is could be probably nicely visible if capacity is degrading. Will have to start monitoring that although it is not easy with some small/short charges here and there :) maybe a good project to learn to code easy iOS app - does not need much, just input start/stop percentage, odometer and kwh charged and store it in table form for export or calculations :) any iOS developer in this forum by any chance? 😄
 

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Mmm... Not too sure about that calculation.

At step 1 it says "You drive 169 miles with consumption of 2.6 miles/kWh.". How would you know your consumption was 2.6 miles/kWh? From the readout on the display? If so, then what is being used as an average would not necessarily correlate with 169 miles. In fact it is unlikely to do so as conditions will change.
I wasn’t the author of the page I linked but I imagine the consumption was based on the trip consumption display rather than the instantaneous consumption at the end of the trip. If you did that I don’t think it would have to be one journey, as long as it was one charge. So something like reset the ‘short term memory’ trip computer after completing a charge, record the battery state-of-charge percentage. Before starting the next charge, record the state-of0charge and check the trip computer recording the miles travelled and average consumption over those miles. Then you’d have all the information needed to cross check the usable battery capacity,

I imagine the alternative of logging what you put in via charging has more variables to account for. Temperature will be a factor as some of the supplied energy will be used to heat and cool the battery during the charge, and the transfer from the supply to the battery will not be 100% efficient.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, it appeared to me a bit later that what you ‘consume’ when you charge is most likely not what gets stored in battery due to multiple losses as ťyou described. Anyway, i just hope that 5-6 charges above 80% dont mean degradation of the battery by 10-15% as that would be very lame 🙈 remember test driving first generation 2nd hand etron that I could have gotten for same price as my current q4sb but was put off by the fact that range shown below 300km :) and now I see that it was pretty much the same as with my current car (as I test drove it in November 2021. In any case, im glad I got the new one even though had to wait for it for over 9 months (literally like a baby 😄)
 

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I bought my Audi GT in February this year. I started with a charge of 238 miles and would charge around 80% for a going around town . I live in Texas and have to go to Houston from the country frequently.
When going down to Houston it is about 100 miles so would charge the car at 100% and would get a charge of up to 268 miles. We never got that again and my max charge was round 250’s . Now the car is charging at 100% and giving me 222 miles. I have driven the car hard , and with the efficiency which saves about 25miles but stops you at over 85mph and in fact slows the car down. What I want to know is why this is happening as the service dept does not know and the car was recalled for software updates.
This is not what I bought the car for I wanted performance and now I have to get a charge at a level 3 charger if I want to get back to the country. I did not buy this car to plod down the road on efficiency.
The car is not fit for purpose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How many miles did you drive in total so far? And would you be able to say approx how many times (ie 10, 25 or 50) did you charge to 100% since February? Personally i also drive mostly in efficiency mode but dont mind that. However if charging just 10 or 20 times to 100% causes 10% degradation to the battery, then I also would not be happy. Considering that they also tell u not to go under 20% this makes usable part only 60% of overall battery which is definitely too little. I mean i get it that for daily drive i should be within 20-80% but to be worried that 10 or 20 full cycles almost destroy the battery (that is half the price of the car…) is ridiculous
 

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Do you need the full 100% of the battery capacity to make it through the day?
The vehicle has limited range. To compensate I’m going to charge to 100% in the event that i need more range than what I expect. You never know when there will be an emergency that requires full charge. I like to have my car ready to go with whatever life throws at me on any given day.
 

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2023 Q4 50 e-tron Premium Plus, Black Optic
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I have owned a Tesla Model 3 LR AWD for 2 1/2 years. Friday I pick up my 2023 Q4 e-tron. I follow the BMW i4 M50 message board. My understanding and consensus based upon what I have read is to avoid charging beyond 80 percent as much as possible for battery health and longevity. The battery will degrade with time and lose capacity under any circumstances. My recommendation is to pamper the battery.
 

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Regarding long term degradation, things look pretty good for my 2019 etron quattro which I got late Nov 2019. I pretty much use L2 charging to 80% regularly, but have used HVDC on rare occasions. According to my Oct RecurrentAuto report, compared with similar EV's, my battery is holding up really well. That little mileage boost-by-software for the 2019's may have made my score a little better than it really is?

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I hope Audi develops a reputation for outstanding battery life and not just for lousy software development!
 

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I’ll be charging to 100% every day. Let’s compare degradation after 1+ years. We also need to compare the time wasted pampering the battery and worrying about degradation. 😂
You do what you want, but there is clearly a reason all these manufacturers recommend not charging to 100% every single day. 80% may be on the conservative side, 90% would likely result in similar degredation levels. I look at it more like some people change their oil every 6-8000 km, others let it go 15000 km. Both cars will be just fine, but one may be in a little better shape in 5 years!
 

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You do what you want, but there is clearly a reason all these manufacturers recommend not charging to 100% every single day. 80% may be on the conservative side, 90% would likely result in similar degredation levels. I look at it more like some people change their oil every 6-8000 km, others let it go 15000 km. Both cars will be just fine, but one may be in a little better shape in 5 years!
Each individual should choose the option that best fits their need.

extended range+reduce range anxiety = charge to 100%

Make it to the top leaderboard for least amount degradation in 10 years = charge to 80%
 

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I guess I am a bit puzzled by some of the comments here. Some of us generally treat our cars well, while others view our cars as utility consumables. Neither is good nor bad. I do not park my car in direct bright hot weather with windows rolled up, others don’t care. The paint and interior of my cars will be very different in five years. I care, theoretical other person does not. Each decision suits the owner.

Battery is no different. There are best practices and preferences. Obviously each person does what suits them as long as the consequences also suit them. The next owner will hopefully check the condition and price the car accordingly.
 
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