[getmoving]

As you say, the oxidation could be a consequence of overheating rather than a root cause. But that's a great illustration of the problem in any case.

I have to wonder why the heat buildup was apparently concentrated in that single prong. Poor connection to the wiring inside the plug?

 

[mmmzon]

Poor connection to the wiring inside the plug?

Quite possible, it might lead to arcing and then heat buildup. One can never be sure.

 

[e-dude]

Nothing to do with the charger, really.
This is about people plugging a 12A continuous load into their 50-year old garage outlet and wiring and letting it run for many hours. Audi feels they will be held responsible for people burning up their wiring and/or house.

You may want to read the recall notice. It is specifically about 220/240v charging.

 

[JNealCox]

I suspect this might be related to an issue I and some others have had (posted elsewhere) with the plugs on our OEM chargers overheating. In my case, as you can see from the photo, the plug became hot enough for the Y prong to oxidize and the casing around it to begin to melt. There was no damage to, or sign of any issues with, the NEMA 14-50R receptacle it was plugged into. This strictly appeared to be an issue of the plug itself overheating. In my case, I took the charger to my dealer who replaced the plug cable under warranty with what appears to be a new (and shorter) design.

When I traded my 2019 etron quattro for a 2024 Q8 etron my new compact Audi EVSE that came with the Q8 had a more lightweight and shorter L2 cable, compared with what I got with the 2019. My Q8 era EVSE is also included in the recall.

 

[Kief]

(2) provide an incentive (stipend, refund, etc.) to have their customers install a dedicated EVSE charger at home (ChargePoint, JuiceBox, etc.). The service manager I spoke to was unable to tell me whether Audi will provide refunds retroactively for clients who already installed home chargers offered by third-party companies, but he said based on his past experience, he expects the company will (we'll see about that).

Interesting how as of 12/18 (same as recall date), Audi is now offering a free L2 EA home charger or $500 gift card with purchase of new etron.

Audi is offering a free Electrify America home EV charger when buying or leasing select EVs — Electrek

If you’ve been eyeing an Audi EV, now may be the time to make a move. Audi is offering a free Electrify America home EV charger ($649 value) with the purchase or lease of select e-tron models.

apple.news

Affected owners should be offered the same. I’d take a $500 gc, despite already having a CPF and never intending to use the portable cable LOL

 

[Perception]

Porsche’s recall details are more helpful.

 

[Kief]

I emailed Audi this morning and asked for a $500 gift card after sharing the link to the current free charger incentive for new buyers…curious their response, if any LOL

 

[jlentzke]

Has anyone heard if Audi plans to replace/supply a new portable charging cable with an incorporated temp sensor?

 

[lotusfla]

yes to the temperature sensor for the Audi charger too. from Consumer's Report:

The problem: Plugging a Compact Charging System or Porsche Mobile Charger into an improper or overburdened 220V power outlet could cause overheating and damage the cable or the outlet.

The fix: Audi and Porsche dealerships will replace the 220V/240V charging cable with an updated cable that contains a temperature sensor. These cables are expected to be available in mid-2024, according to the automakers.

 

[mmmzon]

These cables are expected to be available in mid-2024, according to the automakers.

Cable with a temperature sensor. A 3 cent piece of hardware that will end up costing millions in replacement costs.

 

[getmoving]

And it won’t happen until mid-2024. Sounds like good motivation to install a decent wall-mounted EVSE, for those who have the option.

Other EV manufacturers are offering credits to install wall-mounted EVSE and/or DC charging with new EV purchases as an alternative to the trunk wart. Even Honda/Acura. If they and GM ever actually build an EV.

 

[rdgrimes]

Cable with a temperature sensor. A 3 cent piece of hardware that will end up costing millions in replacement costs.

True enough, but its more complicated than that since something has to respond to a sensor. If the cord has a thermal disconnect then people might keep having to replace the cord.

 

[JNealCox]

A little more info:

Audi and Porsche EV and PHEV Portable Charging Cables Recalled - Consumer Reports

Audi and Porsche are recalling electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) that came with a portable charger that could damage both the charging cable and the outlet it’s plugged into.

www.consumerreports.org

It is really more of an outlet problem. The EVSE does not have the ability to determine if the outlet is "up to snuff" for handling charging. I've used my Audi EVSE for almost 4 years on my home circuit with no problem. Seems to me that I am OK to continue to do that, but don't trust the EVSE anywhere else!

 

[getmoving]

This is a recall in response to an established risk. Not a TSB, and not an informational notice. Most people didn’t have any problem with Takata airbags. Until maybe they did.

The core issue may be heat dissipation, or lack thereof, and that would involve the outlet, the wires attached to it, the conduit, if any, and the cable to the EVSE.

Or there way be a manufacturing defect in the plug that causes high resistance and overheating. Or all of the above.

Why continue to use a portable device as a stationary device when there are many other options? That seems completely backwards. Not to mention penny wise and pound foolish. My $0.02

 

[getmoving]

As for the “temperature sensor” in the replacement cables, that’s interesting because although there are communication lines between the EVSE and the car that could be used to do something intelligent, there are none between EVSE and power outlet/source. So maybe it is just a fusible link, essentially an inline fuse.

 

[calbear92]

Replacement cable with temperature sensor expected mid-2024. Audi and Porsche EV and PHEV Portable Charging Cables Recalled for Overh - Consumer Reports

 

[Mozz]

Sounds like a breaker issue, why aren’t the breakers kicking out on the house breaker box Incorrect breaker meaning too much breaker for the plug and or unit, thought your house breakers were there to protect from these issues. If the audi plug can only handle 30 amps and your pulling 40 or 50 amps through it, its not only a design issue from Audi, its gonna get hot and melt or catch on fire. In any electrical situation your gonna have issues if you over amp your breaker or fuse for your wires, or device, this is not an ev issue, it’s people not understanding that you cant pull more amps through a system that wasn’t designed to handle it, wether its a car or dryer, stove, oven, if on the road and plugging into a plug you know nothing about 50% on the charger would be the safer choice or not plug in at all

This is a recall in response to an established risk. Not a TSB, and not an informational notice. Most people didn’t have any problem with Takata airbags. Until maybe they did. The core issue may be heat dissipation, or lack thereof, and that would involve the outlet, the wires attached to it, the conduit, if any, and the cable to the EVSE. Or there way be a manufacturing defect in the plug that causes high resistance and overheating. Or all of the above. Why continue to use a portable device as a stationary device when there are many other options? That seems completely backwards. Not to mention penny wise and pound foolish. My $0.02

not an electrician, but here is my setup for 2 years and my observations. 2020 etron sportback 4 gauge copper from box to garage 30 feet Industrial plug 40 amp breaker (has never tripped) Audi charger Qr 10 foot extension Charging performance is 9.7 to 10.2 CarS max is 11 kwh for the model and year (My i3 gets a 6.8 kwh on same setup) 68 oat charged for 1 hr from 58% the Audi charger plug to Wall warm NOT hot Wall plug cold to touch wire in conduit cold Audi plug to Car warm extension plug that Audi plug is into cold plug from extension to Car cold

 

[getmoving]

Sounds like a breaker issue, why aren’t the breakers kicking out on the house breaker box Incorrect breaker meaning too much breaker for the plug and or unit, thought your house breakers were there to protect from these issues. If the audi plug can only handle 30 amps and your pulling 40 or 50 amps through it, its not only a design issue from Audi, its gonna get hot and melt or catch on fire. In any electrical situation your gonna have issues if you over amp your breaker or fuse for your wires, or device, this is not an ev issue, it’s people not understanding that you cant pull more amps through a system that wasn’t designed to handle it, wether its a car or dryer, stove, oven, if on the road and plugging into a plug you know nothing about 50% on the charger would be the safer choice or not plug in at all not an electrician, but here is my setup for 2 years and my observations. 2020 etron sportback 4 gauge copper from box to garage 30 feet Industrial plug 40 amp breaker (has never tripped) Audi charger Qr 10 foot extension Charging performance is 9.7 to 10.2 CarS max is 11 kwh for the model and year (My i3 gets a 6.8 kwh on same setup) 68 oat charged for 1 hr from 58% the Audi charger plug to Wall warm NOT hot Wall plug cold to touch wire in conduit cold Audi plug to Car warm extension plug that Audi plug is into cold plug from extension to Car cold

Conventional magnetic circuit breakers respond to excessive current, not overheating. The breaker is sized according to the wire gauge of the circuit protected by it, by looking up the "ampacity" of the wire size and type. This predicts the electrical current the wire can carry without overheating. But the breaker can not and will not respond to overheating of the wire or any attached load.

If overheating melts the insulation of the wiring and causes arcing, the breaker may respond to that. But the horse is kinda out of the barn at that point! And technically, an arc-fault circuit breaker is better equipped to detect that situation in a timely manner. A conventional breaker won't respond until a whole lot of current starts flowing though the short circuit.

Continuous loads create a much greater risk of overheating than short-term intermittent loads, and this is why it is required to "derate" the permissible continuous load to 80% of the breaker rating.

Full disclosure: Not an electrician or electrical engineer, just a major geek who does his own house wiring on occasion, and hasn't yet burned down a house...

 

[Mozz]

Conventional magnetic circuit breakers respond to excessive current, not overheating. The breaker is sized according to the wire gauge of the circuit protected by it, by looking up the "ampacity" of the wire size and type. This predicts the electrical current the wire can carry without overheating. But the breaker can not and will not respond to overheating of the wire or any attached load.

If overheating melts the insulation of the wiring and causes arcing, the breaker may respond to that. But the horse is kinda out of the barn at that point! And technically, an arc-fault circuit breaker is better equipped to detect that situation in a timely manner. A conventional breaker won't respond until a whole lot of current starts flowing though the short circuit.

Continuous loads create a much greater risk of overheating than short-term intermittent loads, and this is why it is required to "derate" the permissible continuous load to 80% of the breaker rating.

Full disclosure: Not an electrician or electrical engineer, just a major geek who does his own house wiring on occasion, and hasn't yet burned down a house...

Iget it just was thinking for that kind of heat from overload or short it would kick -

 

[getmoving]

Iget it just was thinking for that kind of heat from overload or short it would kick -

You’re not alone! I think that’s a very common misconception, probably shared by myself before I did a deep dive on the subject. And that’s what is so dangerous about this whole paradigm.

You see the problem in comments like “my breaker has never tripped so everything is fine”.

BTW, do you smell smoke? 🔥