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Discussion Starter #1
So let’s hear it!
Whats the lowest anybody has got down to while out and about?
Has anybody driven past the zero range mark!
let’s hear those horror stories!

I have got to a charger with 10 left, charger was broken, I only needed 20-25 to get home, so just needed a top
Up of say 15 next charger 8 miles away (wrong direction) needed 30 to get home!
I was sweating!
 

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Don't think I'd be that adventurous. Hah. Even when I had an ICE vehicle, I'd rarely go much lower than 1/3 of a tank. I will probably go lower in the E-Tron, as they do charger faster at a lower state of charge (SoC).
 

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I read somewhere on here that 0 miles left equals 0. Even stopping somewhere for 15 minutes of charge has to be better than waiting for a tow truck IMHO
Zero is indeed zero. There's a bottom buffer, but that's just there for anti-bricking protection. You can restart the car when it dies and drive another few meters, but that's just so you can move it to a safe place or get it into a charging bay.
 

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I've been using my E-Tron 50 for 3 weeks and the lowest it has been for range was 50ish but would happily let it go lower. I did a lot of research on range in various weathers and 99% of my journeys are never going to induce any range anxiety. The longer journeys just require a bit of planning and should pose no issues.

Though on a slightly different subject of range. When I was deciding if the E-Tron 50 fell into my "is it good enough" criteria, I took the furthest return journey (from home) I am likely to drive in an emergency at short notice and added about 5 more miles. That number was 60ish miles for comfort but at a pinch I can allow as low as 40 miles range as I know I can do a quick charge on the return leg if needs must. So if I am at home I don't panic if the car is sitting with around 40% battery for example. Though if I am not driving it anyway, on the charger it will go.

One other thing I ignore, is the advice to never charge more than 80%. If it's charging and I don't intend to use it then 100% it is.
 

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One other thing I ignore, is the advice to never charge more than 80%. If it's charging and I don't intend to use it then 100% it is.
The battery's capacity and longevity will be affected if you do that regularly. Even if you're only leasing the car you should aim to preserve the battery; we need electric cars to be successful, and that's not going to happen if there are lots of horror stories about second hand EVs with ruined batteries.
 

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The battery's capacity and longevity will be affected if you do that regularly. Even if you're only leasing the car you should aim to preserve the battery; we need electric cars to be successful, and that's not going to happen if there are lots of horror stories about second hand EVs with ruined batteries.
It only gets charged once a week to 100%, the rest of the time it sits at whatever the battery was left at. If I am visiting people or doing shopping near a free public charger I will plug it in if I can. This generally gets an extra 15-20 miles of range to keep it near the 50% 80% charge I tend to keep it at throughout the week. That will more than cover me for any journey I am likely to make. Though I guess that means I only need to charge to 100% rarely and if I am doing a longer journey. Still getting over this range anxiety thing.

To be fair if buying an EV introduces an extra level of maintenance or "rules" and low level stress than it will make it harder to entice the ICE. I just made up a new slogan. :)

The reality is that when/If EV becomes less niche and more mainstream, most people will ignore any established EV etiquette that the early EV adopters assumed as "law". The only way the masses adhere to any rules that they feel inconveniences them is to enforce penalties.
  • Traffic wardens should be able to instantly ticket any non EV car that parks in an EV charging spot.
  • Any EV that is at 100% charge and still at a charging spot should be ticketed.
  • Any EV that double parks should be instantly ticketed.
  • Every charging station requires some form of RFID/Card scanner. So once you scan the already network linked charger should have your mobile number. It can then SMS you with warnings if you have overstayed or are hogging a rapid while your older EV trickle charges.
  • Charging companies should be capped a to a maximum price rate. If charging an EV costs more than diesel/petrol then why would anyone ever want to change. If it takes 45 minutes to do a full charge at a rapid and it costs more than a full tank of fuel then people will just refuse to change. Not everyone has a driveway or off street parking.
  • New charging tech that drastically reduces charging times.
  • More rapid charging stations and improved reliability. This single step will reduce the possibility of being stuck with nowhere to charge.
  • Charging posts in streets for people with no driveways/off street parking.
  • Car manufacturers forced to adopt one standard and be forced to meet a higher lower threshold for charging speeds. The E-Tron is a perfect example, an extremely expensive car that can charge at 11kW max on most public chargers. It's pathetic that you stop at a 22kW charger and because Audi cheaped out you can only get 11kW.
Until most of those are implemented then ICE is going nowhere as pure EV will be doomed to failure.
 

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Until most of those are implemented then ICE is going nowhere as pure EV will be doomed to failure.
Quite apart from various governments moving to ban ICE, many city centres are independently introducing low-emissions and zero-emissions zones, which will be a de-facto ban anyway.

At least half of your bullet points are on the way or are here now anyway. The others look unnecessarily draconian.

As early adopters, I believe we should be "good citizens" and help others make the transition more easily. Anything we can do to make that easier or to remove objections is a benefit, no matter how tiny. Prolonging the usable life of EVs and their batteries is part of that.
 

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Quite apart from various governments moving to ban ICE, many city centres are independently introducing low-emissions and zero-emissions zones, which will be a de-facto ban anyway.

At least half of your bullet points are on the way or are here now anyway. The others look unnecessarily draconian.
I would appreciate if you could give give some details on which of my points are on the way?

On my draconian points, we already have wardens who ticket cars for traffic parking violations. Introducing new parking laws for EV charging stations would be essential if EVs are to become mainstream. Making people obey the law rather than hope they obey some noble sense of decency or etiquette is very naive and is proven not to work in busy towns and urban areas all over the world.

As early adopters, I believe we should be "good citizens" and help others make the transition more easily. Anything we can do to make that easier or to remove objections is a benefit, no matter how tiny. Prolonging the usable life of EVs and their batteries is part of that.
EVs have been a thing for well over a decade, the early adopter period is long over. It is not early adopter, just a niche in the UK and will continue to remain that way until the Government get the finger out.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry to go off topic.

Don't even get me started on Ice cars parking in the "One or two" charge spaces in pay for car parks.

This is a gripe that just makes me see red, why on earth can the parking warden can not give them a ticket simply baffles me. They come back knowing peoples tickets are about to expire and catch them 5 minutes over the clock and ticket them strait away, but walk on past an ice car parked in a charging space. I have confronted said car park warden many times at a specific car park near my place of work. It is the same answer every time, "I do not have the authority, or even a ticket that I can put on their car"

I am nor sure on the geographic situation and everybody's local areas ( UK and beyond) but mine do not ticket them.

P1^%SS^S me right off!
 

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It's the same here in Northern Ireland in regards to being unable to ticket anyone taking up an ICE spot. Though to be honest, the biggest problem for EV owners gaining access to charging points is other EV owners.
  • BEV cars that charge at a ridiculously slow rates sitting at rapid charging points all day. Once you have dropped to a trickle and have adequate range to proceed then please move.
  • Lazy EV owners who just drop the connectors at their arse, usually in a puddle.
  • People who have enough to get where they are going with some reserve but hog the charging station until 100% is reached. (not the same as point 1 as their car may indeed be fast charging, just needlessly so as they can get to where they are going already).
  • EVs double parking over both bays.
  • EVs parking on the wrong bay and dragging the charging cable accross, potentially leaving the other charging station unusable.
  • Sticking their car on an AC charger when there is a DC charger they can use. Get your car charged and move to free up both bays.
A friend who is a fellow E-Tron driver said he would plug into the AC charger instead of the available DC charger so as not to take up the DC. I reminded him there are loads of cars that have AC only charging and that his good deed might very well not be that good as the AC charging station would be blocked for hours. I pointed out it would be better to DC charge for 20 minutes then move his car to a normal parking spot and thus free up both charging stations. Or if he had sufficient charge, just not charge at all.

Off topic rant about EV adoption.
Here in N. Ireland the charging infrastructure is utterly woeful for coverage but they are all free. The fastest DC charger is 50kW and there are only a handful of them for the entire province. There are no charging companies investing here because the local Government have stated all EV charging stations should be free. The idea is to entice ICE owners to move to EVs and access free public charging. The problem is the Government here are not investing in upgrading the infrastructure. The local EV owners groups think the solution is for charging companies to be allowed to charge to use their stations. That would generate profit and get the likes of Ionity investing here. The problem is it would create a system similar to that in the Republic of Ireland. There are a number of 350kW chargers there and more being added but using them is expensive at 0.69 Euro per kW (cheaper if you pay a monthly subscription). Even the 22kw chargers now have a .33 Euro per kw charge. So if I were to go on a driving holiday to RoI and charge my E-Tron 50 a few times from ~10% to 100% it would cost around 80 Euro, or I would be stuck on a 22kW charger sipping 11kW of electricity for 4 hours or more. That money would get around 600 miles of range in a diesel. So even for the most efficient EVs the price to charge at a rapid in RoI is significantly more than the price of diesel or petrol. The RoI rapid chargers also have a penalty if you charge longer than 45 minutes (which is good IMO) but the same overstay penalty applies to 22kW fast chargers. 45 minutes at a fast charger will get about 20 miles of range which is utterly useless on a road trip. I know the idea is that rapids are only meant to be used once in a while and the majority of charging should be done at home. The problem is you are most likely only at one of those rapids because you can't get home to charge. So not only is it more expensive than ICE fuel, you have to hang around for 45 minutes or longer to get it. Hardly selling the eV revolution is it?

If that was genuinely the "solution" then I would 100% be driving a dirty diesel right now.
 

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One other thing that is a massive problem for EV adoption here in the UK is the pricing of the actual EVs. When you add in the extortionate costs some of these rapid chargers are then it's not even close to a recipe for success. I only considered my E-Tron 50 because it was a great lease price and it was a great car. The fact it is electric was a serious disadvantage I was prepared to overlook.

I know this will offend some EV owners but if someone were to offer most people a choice between a Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Kona or Kia E-Niro compared to a BMW X1, Mercedes GLA or Audi Q3 and say they are all in the same price range. Well I'm sorry but there's not a chance in **** I (or any other non EV zealot) would pick any of those EVs over the equivalently priced ICE.

There is not a single EV out there that is not significantly more expensive that the ICE equivalent (Kona ICE from ~£18k, Kona EV from ~£30k). So not only are you paying more but the savings in fuel costs do not come close to offsetting that initial cost. Additionaly when doing longer range road trips, EV ownership brings the low level stress of range anxiety and having to use military precision planning with a plan A, B and C "just in case". I'm sorry but if BEVs (and I don't mean pointless hybrids because they are not a solution) are to become mainstream they need to offer at least parity over ICE cars and right now that parity just isn't there.

Unfortunately clearly most of the rest of the UK feel the same considering the utterly poor ~7.7% new car EV adoption rates. It's not the EV Zealots that need convincing, it's the masses and there is currently zero incentive for them to ditch the ICE.

 

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One other thing that is a massive problem for EV adoption here in the UK is the pricing of the actual EVs. When you add in the extortionate costs some of these rapid chargers are then it's not even close to a recipe for success. I only considered my E-Tron 50 because it was a great lease price and it was a great car. The fact it is electric was a serious disadvantage I was prepared to overlook.

I know this will offend some EV owners but if someone were to offer most people a choice between a Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Kona or Kia E-Niro compared to a BMW X1, Mercedes GLA or Audi Q3 and say they are all in the same price range. Well I'm sorry but there's not a chance in **** I (or any other non EV zealot) would pick any of those EVs over the equivalently priced ICE.

There is not a single EV out there that is not significantly more expensive that the ICE equivalent (Kona ICE from ~£18k, Kona EV from ~£30k). So not only are you paying more but the savings in fuel costs do not come close to offsetting that initial cost. Additionaly when doing longer range road trips, EV ownership brings the low level stress of range anxiety and having to use military precision planning with a plan A, B and C "just in case". I'm sorry but if BEVs (and I don't mean pointless hybrids because they are not a solution) are to become mainstream they need to offer at least parity over ICE cars and right now that parity just isn't there.

Unfortunately clearly most of the rest of the UK feel the same considering the utterly poor ~7.7% new car EV adoption rates. It's not the EV Zealots that need convincing, it's the masses and there is currently zero incentive for them to ditch the ICE.

I agree to a lot you say. But also disagree to some.
I for one large part of my choice to drive EV much the same as my wife is the fact they are kinder to the planet.
I drive an Etron as I am lucky to be able to afford it. Not sure so much it’s luck actually, I work hard to enjoy some of the nicer things in life. But I actually prefer the Q8, I have an Etron because of my carbon footprint print. I’ve been with EV for a long time because I am committed to trying to do “my bit”
 
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That is very noble of you and I do agree the climate change is a thing and we all need to do our bit. Unfortunately most people don't think like that and would have their limits. Ask 100 ICE people with £30K to spend if they want a Nissan Leaf or a BMW X1 or Audi Q3, then existing EV adoption rates shows not many would pick a Leaf.

I understand battery packs are expensive to produce and that eventually the price difference between an ICE and an EV will equalise. But even then EV adoption rates will be low unless there is a cheapish and reliable public charging network with one card/app for all vendors.
 

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I think the same and they are very valid points.
I did not want to come across a a tree hugger😂. !
Your right and it’s a shame but true, when you put it in black and white. Nissan Leaf v Audi Q 3. I guess I get a bit lost as when looking for a car I look at the EV range (not the miles etc) but what’s our there within my budget. Ideally new but do look at used too. Nowadays it’s either Tesla or Audi (let’s keep that discussion for another day! )
I don’t look at ICE cars and you are right, most people may say “think I’m going to research EV cars this time round” then when presented with the options within budget think again and the “I want to do my bit” can be quickly be dismissed with “I’m not driving that” or “bloody **** they are expensive”
It’s a fact that eventually everybody will drive EV but until prices..again as you quite rightly say, of batteries come down and technology develops we are left in the situation we are. This is where I tip my hat to Tesla as they for one are making strides in battery development. Sept 23rd this year could be a game changer for Tesla and the EV market as they are announcing something big. Sept 23rd 2020 is Tesla battery day. I’m excited to see what they announce.
I can’t help think that Audi are now in the EV game with a slightly different motive than Tesla. Money being one and obviously they have to or be left behind. It would be interesting to see what they themselves are working on.
 

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I think it's a catch 22 right now.
  1. Most people won't go EV because the price of EV cars is prohibitive
  2. Infrastructure is still not fully developed.
  3. Range anxiety. Even the much vaunted Tesla's cannot touch an ICE for range and the infrastructure for topping up.
  4. Stress of having to create plans and backup plans for even moderately ranged trips.
  5. Battery tech is currently expensive
  6. All of the above means car manufacturers are slow to invest in EV and battery tech because the adoption rate is so low. Why invest as much for R&D if sales are so low compared to ICE?
Which results in a cycle of points 1 - 5 above, which results in point 6 and round and round it goes. Though I see signs of this improving as manufactures (not most Governments) are starting to see the writing on the wall and don't want to become irrelevant/extinct.

Ironically a lot of EV owners still see themselves as early adopters or trailblazers in the new EV wave. Yet EVs have been a things for over a decade and are still a niche. I even got the impression from some EV owners that I was "unwelcome" in their little club. Though that is most certainly only a very tiny minority because most EV owners are more than happy to share their knowledge and wisdom. And for people like me it is very much appreciated.
 

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I would appreciate if you could give give some details on which of my points are on the way?
Contactless payment is mandatory on new chargers in the UK, 350kW charging is here now, and more chargers are being rolled out all the time, charging posts at roadside (raising posts and street lamp trials currently underway), and CCS is the EU standard - even Nissan are ditching CHAdeMO.
 

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Don't even get me started on Ice cars parking in the "One or two" charge spaces in pay for car parks.
Most UK parking is private, so it's up to the car park owners to police them; they seldom bother other than the low hanging fruit of overstays, usually managed by ANPR.
 

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Most UK parking is private, so it's up to the car park owners to police them; they seldom bother other than the low hanging fruit of overstays, usually managed by ANPR.

My main local problem car parks are NCP, so yes i agree private owned. But in Manchester we have many council owned and paroled by council traffic wardens. They should be able to enforce tickets on ICE cars parked in EV spaces. I am surprised as its money for them, they rarely miss a trick!
 

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My main local problem car parks are NCP, so yes i agree private owned. But in Manchester we have many council owned and paroled by council traffic wardens. They should be able to enforce tickets on ICE cars parked in EV spaces. I am surprised as its money for them, they rarely miss a trick!
I'm also in Manchester, but I pretty much never drive into the city centre. I'm not aware of the specific spaces you're referring to - the GMEV ones? As I understand it, GMEV is a bit of a mess at the moment anyway. It's unclear who runs which part of the network. I've not even bothered to subscribe.
 
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