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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Did 400 miles (200 miles each way) trip from New York to Binghamton, NY
Had to borrow a gas car to do it
There is just one (!!!) 50 KW charger in 150 miles on the way from Binghamton to NY
It has only one working stall and it is very often busy
Quite a few Tesla superchargers around that area, though
Unfortunately, in places like this, the only EV you can realistically drive would be Tesla. ICE is the other alternative :(
I’ll look for 300+ mile range for my next EV
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think that only works with Tesla's destination chargers.
Yes, I was specifically referring to fast DC 50 KW+ chargers
L2 chargers will do nothing for you if you need to go 200 miles, then spend 4 hours there and return back the same 200 miles
Frankly, even 50KW chargers are annoyingly slow - 150 KW chargers are so much better
 

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It would be good to have more stations in NY and other places soon. With the number of EVs announced and coming out this year, they should be speeding up deployment soon so more folks will feel comfortable purchasing one. While most don’t do a lot of long distance driving, having the extended range or sufficient places to charge would ease this worry. In my area, we have a few places with ElectrifyAmerica stations being built and turned on. I found 1 EVGO fast charger and 1 from ChargePoint in my area, most CP sites in the area are level 2. I’ve come across other etrons and Mustang Mach E at the ElectrifyAmerica sites, seen a number on the road and a lot more Tesla’s than I’m used to seeing back in the DC Metro area. I’ve also seen a number of plug-in hybrids as well. There seem to be a lot of interested folks in making the move but some go plug-in, mainly to have the safety of the ICE for long trips.

I hope there will be a lot more fast chargers built out by the end of the year. There seem to be a lot more interest these days, especially with the gas shortage a few weeks ago. Got friends on the east coast that have been asking me about mine since then. We will see how things progress in the coming months.
 

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We had an EA site open up no more than 5 minutes from my house about 3 months ago. My initial reaction was that it was great, but then I thought why would I ever charge there when it's so close to my house. The only rationale I could think of is if I had forgotten to charge and we needed to drive a longish distance. In that case I could just hop over there and charge quickly.

About 2 months ago another EA site opened up at a nearby shopping mall. So they are expanding. I think the biggest problem for EA is to keep their locations operational with a minimal downtime.
 

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Yep, I’ve had to do that a couple of times, when I needed to charge when I needed so,e more juice. I’m typically charging once a week with my commute but when some unexpected trip comes up, it’s faster than doing it at home. I like seeing more places come online as that is useful for long trips.
 

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We had an EA site open up no more than 5 minutes from my house about 3 months ago. My initial reaction was that it was great, but then I thought why would I ever charge there when it's so close to my house. The only rationale I could think of is if I had forgotten to charge and we needed to drive a longish distance. In that case I could just hop over there and charge quickly.

About 2 months ago another EA site opened up at a nearby shopping mall. So they are expanding. I think the biggest problem for EA is to keep their locations operational with a minimal downtime.
It would only make sense if you are running out of time to use up all the free electricity EA is offering you. Even charging at home costs money!
 

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i think the problem with electric charge stations is sustanability. I dont think with the amount of investment . rent etc that goes in EA or any other electric charge station set up , the return they get would not make them revenue generating considering the expenses involved. most people charge at home so these would be underutilized as opposed to gas stations which makes money. The volume of Teslas on road may make the tesla charge stations sustainable I believe.
 

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It would only make sense if you are running out of time to use up all the free electricity EA is offering you. Even charging at home costs money!
Well also in the event you forgot to charge the night before and you had to leave quickly on a longish trip. The far faster charging of the EA charger would enable you to top off and get on the road far quicker than charging at home.
 

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i think the problem with electric charge stations is sustanability. I dont think with the amount of investment . rent etc that goes in EA or any other electric charge station set up , the return they get would not make them revenue generating considering the expenses involved. most people charge at home so these would be underutilized as opposed to gas stations which makes money. The volume of Teslas on road may make the tesla charge stations sustainable I believe.
That’s probably true now, but with the proliferation of EVs coming relatively soon, in the future that may no longer be the case.
 

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i think the problem with electric charge stations is sustanability. I dont think with the amount of investment . rent etc that goes in EA or any other electric charge station set up , the return they get would not make them revenue generating considering the expenses involved. most people charge at home so these would be underutilized as opposed to gas stations which makes money. The volume of Teslas on road may make the tesla charge stations sustainable I believe.
You are correct, I don't ever see electric stations similar to gas stations being a viable business because the turnover will be much lower (takes longer to charge), and the vast majority of charging will be done at the residence. The future will be large charging stations along major highways, in many areas these may require government subsidies, and small (3-4 charger) installations at fast food restaurants, Starbucks etc. which the restaurant will subsidize the real estate to drive traffic.

Tesla has said publicly multiple times that the supercharger network is not designed to be a profit generating enterprise, rather it was installed to drive EV sales.
 

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i think the problem with electric charge stations is sustanability. I dont think with the amount of investment . rent etc that goes in EA or any other electric charge station set up , the return they get would not make them revenue generating considering the expenses involved. most people charge at home so these would be underutilized as opposed to gas stations which makes money. The volume of Teslas on road may make the tesla charge stations sustainable I believe.
Easy for us to forget, but as more, younger people in apartments and such go to EVs, they won’t have garages to charge at home and will need fast neighborhood chargers.
 

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again DCFC are meant for occasional long distance trips an not for daily charges. The " younger people in apartment" ( not sure where that comes from!!) will still need to figure where to get the daily charge from. its not economic to charge at 43 cents/KWH charge for daily commute.
 

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Easy for us to forget, but as more, younger people in apartments and such go to EVs, they won’t have garages to charge at home and will need fast neighborhood chargers.
I've spend time back in Montana, where apartment parking lots have outlets so that people can plug their cars in. Oh, not to charge, but to plug in the block heater and battery heater. Other parking lots as well, supermarkets, libraries, employee lots for businesses, and so on. Got keep the gas engine warm enough to start, and the starter battery warm enough to start the engine. One frosty morning when I didn't plug in the night before, went to start the engine, turned the key and heard just a click. Plugged in the heater, had a cup of coffee, tried a half an hour later and it started right up.

If I recall correctly, it was -35 degrees F that morning. That would be -37 C. A gas car in good shape with a new starting battery might start when it is that cold without a block heater. None will at -50C, at least not back in the 1970's. I doubt if it changed. Maybe a reader in Alaska or Canada would comment.

If apartments could install outlets for engine heaters, it seems likely to me that an outlet for charging a car wouldn't be that difficult to install. The first landlord that figures this out will have a full building and can charge higher rent. Then the rest will figure it out.
 

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I've spend time back in Montana, where apartment parking lots have outlets so that people can plug their cars in. Oh, not to charge, but to plug in the block heater and battery heater. Other parking lots as well, supermarkets, libraries, employee lots for businesses, and so on. Got keep the gas engine warm enough to start, and the starter battery warm enough to start the engine. One frosty morning when I didn't plug in the night before, went to start the engine, turned the key and heard just a click. Plugged in the heater, had a cup of coffee, tried a half an hour later and it started right up.

If I recall correctly, it was -35 degrees F that morning. That would be -37 C. A gas car in good shape with a new starting battery might start when it is that cold without a block heater. None will at -50C, at least not back in the 1970's. I doubt if it changed. Maybe a reader in Alaska or Canada would comment.

If apartments could install outlets for engine heaters, it seems likely to me that an outlet for charging a car wouldn't be that difficult to install. The first landlord that figures this out will have a full building and can charge higher rent. Then the rest will figure it out.
I live near Toronto - so we get the same kind of weather as Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, etc....not "stupid" cold.

But

I lived in Winnipeg, and traveled, for work, in Northern Ontario. I can confirm, that really cold winter areas do offer 120 volt plug-ins. If not, the norm when it's -40 is to leave the car running......However, most of these plug-ins are in employers car parks, and commercial and retail establishments. SOME outdoor Condo parking lots do have them, but it's not common.
On the plug-ins: There are a number of companies offering "smart" plug-ins, that will shut of at warmer temperatures. That would snooker the use of them for EV charging.

Also - Many of the Apartment/condos cannot offer level 2 charging, as their electrical service is too small for the addition. My home Province passed a law saying that a condo Board could not arbitrarily refuse to install level 2 chargers, they had to prove that there was no electrical headroom to do so. Many instances - especially older buildings- the case was proven so. New load shedding and sharing systems do make it more viable in other scenarios...

again DCFC are meant for occasional long distance trips an not for daily charges. The " younger people in apartment" ( not sure where that comes from!!) will still need to figure where to get the daily charge from. its not economic to charge at 43 cents/KWH charge for daily commute.
Your statement is EXACTLY what Tesla said 4 years ago. They even sent out warning letters to locals who were using the free Superchargers....Then Tesla changed it's stance, and began to lure condominium/apartment dwellers to buy Teslas. In many cases, the new owners cannot get level 2 charging in their buildings. So Tesla built many of them, and they charge for them (either by time or usage). The Tesla forum is full of model 3 and Y owners complaining that they need more city Superchargers - and they are getting them. Other EV makers need to address what they will do for urban condo owners, if they wish to get them into EVs.
 

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Looks like the lack of a viable economic model for HVDC, or even Level 2, chargers is a real roadblock--how to do it without the support of a "local base" of users to sustain it. Could a fee on EV's, a fee at the EV charging station (like a gas tax), or even a fee on public electric utility bills be in the future to cover the cost of a charging infrastructure (much like the gas tax is used to fund highways)?
 

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again DCFC are meant for occasional long distance trips an not for daily charges. The " younger people in apartment" ( not sure where that comes from!!) will still need to figure where to get the daily charge from. its not economic to charge at 43 cents/KWH charge for daily commute.
Yes, it’s not just young people. How about all those that own condos without garages? Where do they get their daily charges? Think about how many chargers would be necessary in some of these huge, sprawling, condo complexes.
 
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