[MegeTron]

A little rant.

I was on the fence between the e-tron and Model X, ultimately my decision was based on the following:
1. Financials. Big discounts, still eligible for the $7,500 tax credit and $2,500 rebate (available in Texas), 0% financing.
2. Fit and finish. Audi already is known for having top notch interiors and fantastic build quality. The reliability of this car is still unknown, but so far so good and honestly when compared to Tesla, the Tesla looks and feels like a toy.
3. Reliability. As I mentioned above, the reliability of the e-tron still needs time and miles to prove out how good it is, but when you research the reliability of Tesla, I would not put my family in one of those cars until they sort out some very concerning issues. Obviously, you have issues with the doors, the suspension and many cases of replacing batteries early on under warranty. Those are par for the course for a mass produced car and I'm not surprised that there are issues with those cars. The one that swayed my decision was the control arm issue as highlighted very well here: Tesla's Suspension Issues Get Terrifying At 200 Km/h On Autobahn. There are many cases of this type of failure and this is the kind of catastrophic failure that should warrant a recall.

We are 2,000 miles in with our e-tron and the most frustrating things that we have experienced to date is the MMI system sometimes setting to guest automatically rather than me or my wife, sometimes Android Auto acts a little weird, and the fact that the back seat doesn't recline, meaning that our child's carseat doesn't recline all the way. To me, minor complaints when weighed against ALL of the amazing things we enjoy about this car. I came from a Subaru Outback and our other car is an Infiniti QX60. I am a car fanatic, but over the past 5 years I've lost my passion for cars, opting for the "logical" choice over a passionate choice. This car has re-ignited my passion and obsession for cars and I can tell you that as long as no major reliability issues come about with this car, I am committed to the Audi brand for life.

 

[omegafiler]

It's a very common rant. We could probably have a dedicated section for "why I didn't buy a Tesla." hah. But good points and welcome to the E-Tron.

 

[MegeTron]

You're absolutely right that there could be an entire section as to why someone didn't buy a Tesla. I'd love to hear more from people as to why!
Two more issues that I had with Tesla:
1) A buddy of mine owns a body shop. His advice was to pray that you do NOT ever wreck a Tesla if you buy one. Their parts are virtually non-existent b/c they're so focused on new production that any major work will take multiple months.
2) Uber credits when your car is being serviced or worked on because they don't have loaners. If I'm paying >$65K for a car I would hope they'll have a loaner available. It's more proof to the capacity issue and you could say "at least you get the Uber credits rather than a shuttle" but knowing I'll have a loaner with my Audi solidified it.

 

[JNealCox]

I am not sure problems with Android Auto should be on your list. EVERYONE has problems with Android Auto!

1) For me, the Audi quality was the top of my list. The fit and finish of the Audi is excellent. Given my typical driving distances, sacrificing 300 miles per charge for 200 miles per charge is well worth it, since I get 200 miles without wind noise and rattling panels. I also like the options of using buttons and dials (especially on the steering wheel) to make adjustments (a much safer way to do it)

2) Despite Elon's disgust with heads up displays and his promises to never have it on Teslas, I like mine a LOT! Navigation, especially, is much safer.

3) Also, I am not a fan of "one peddle driving". Perhaps that is due to my learning to drive with a manual transmission (and the fact that my "other" car is a manual), but I hate having one foot glued to the peddle. In a test drive years ago, not being fully aware of one peddle driving, I was test driving a BMW i3 heading up hill on the freeway. I lifted my foot to adjust my foot position and the car came to a dead stop in the middle lane of the freeway--that kind of driving excitement I don't need. With the Audi, the combination of brake/accelerator peddles and the paddles gives you a lot of options to explore for how to drive an EV.

4) The "Blind Spot Detection" on the Audi works really well. Teslas really don't have an effective BSD, as commented on by Consumer Reports. There is no alert light by the side mirrors, rather you have to look away from where you want to move in order to look inward and down at the big computer screen in the center of the car.

5) While not super important to me, the Audi has a spare tire, although it is a quirky one!

 

[omegafiler]

I know I've posted similar thoughts a few times, as have many other folks who jumped over to the competition. Either because they already owned a Tesla or didn't want to subject themselves to the inevitable quality issues. I previously "bought" and refused delivery on a Model 3 Perf last year. And then this year, canceled my Model Y Perf when I came across a great deal on the E-Tron Prestige. One test drive and I was sold.

But here is my list:

Why I didn't buy a Tesla?
This is from my own personal observations (many test drives), as frequently echoed via 3rd party feedback.

• Persistent quality control issues (Manufacturing process)
  • Misaligned panels and trim with huge panel gaps
  • Poor paint quality, dust under paint, etc.
  • Vehicles delivered dirty and stained during assembly
  • Physical damage that owners are expected to handle on their own (at Tesla expense) via 3rd party Body shops.
  • This has all notably gotten worse over the years as Tesla continues to shift focus to quantity vs quality.
• Poor customer service (Pre and post-sales)
  • Tesla buying experience is a complete mess, with little communication.
  • What communication you do receive is often incorrect or missing entirely.
  • No compensation for any hassles; it's just part of "buying a Tesla."
• Poor Dealer Service
  • Limited dealer network
  • Potentially long wait times to get a vehicle into service
  • Don't expect any issues will be resolved on the first visit, or at all.
    • e.g., "working within spec" is a common answer.
  • Don't expect a loaner, an Uber credit is common
• Poor vehicle quality
  • Excessive wind & road noise
  • Lots of squeaks and rattles
  • Feels and sounds like you're driving a tin can with limited structural rigidity.
• Missing Features
  • At this price, you expect some features from even a mainstream vehicle, which are not available.
  • No cooled seats, HUD, Android Auto or Apple Carplay, Sunroof, surround-view cameras, etc.

Why would I consider a Tesla?
It's worth noting that I do admire Tesla for what they're doing for the EV industry. We wouldn't likely even have the E-Tron if it weren't for Elon Musk proving that EVs can be more than a compliance vehicle. Here are the benefits.

• EV Tech & Performance
  • Tesla still has the best EV tech from the batteries to the motors.
  • YouTube is flooded with Tesla's performing its head snapping speedy 0-60 runs.
    • I admit, that is a lot of fun. But like any party trick, it gets old quick.
• Software Updates
  • Not only do you get free software updates, but they are OTA
  • That excludes performance-related and large feature updates, which can be very expensive.
  • There is a limit to the usefulness, as Tesla's age, the computer hardware struggles to keep up with new functionality and run slow, laggy, or unresponsive.
• Charing Network & Range
  • Due in large part to said EV tech, they tend to have the best range.
  • Not needing to worry about luxury features and build quality means the vehicles are relatively lighter weight.
  • The Tesla charging network has a big head-start and is more likely to allow traveling to further destinations.

Why did I buy the Audi E-Tron?
Because every negative you see above is a positive for Audi. And the Tesla positives were simply not worth the negatives. Not at those prices. All of that, combined with excellent deals made the E-Tron a relative bargain. And if you read a few independent range tests, you'll even note that Tesla's real-world range advantage is nowhere near as large as the government ratings indicate. Plus, the 3rd party charging networks are improving every day.

Summary
When you buy a Tesla, you have to understand what you are buying. You're not getting a high-quality vehicle or anything resembling good service. You're buying the EV tech and a future of self-driving vehicles and robo-taxis. Where making a good quality vehicle and adding cool tech is simply not relevant. If you want a good quality (and proper luxury) vehicle and can accept range and charging limitations, I think most folks will be much better served by the E-Tron, or even other brands!

That means not just Audi. Even the Kia Niro EV puts the Tesla to shame in quality control. And with Ford, Volvo, GM, and others joining the EV club, it's going to be very interesting over the next few years. I'd love to see Tesla improve as it would only serve to make everybody else work harder to keep up.

No matter how you look at it, competition is great! No matter how great you are at something, everybody must improve or get left behind.

 

[MegeTron]

@JNealCox the one footed driving experience is very different and I found that I didn't enjoy the drive nearly as much when I drove a Model X.

@omegafiler this is a fantastic summary! Your points are all very valid and I do agree with you that I completely admire what Elon and Tesla have done for not just EV technology but for the future of self-driving cars. My father used to work for the highway dept as a software developer and he said that they always thought self-driving cars would never happen because they believed it had to be part of the highway infrastructure and didn't think that it could be part of the car.

What I also like is that Tesla completely disrupted an entire industry, which ALWAYS leads to innovation. Now that the big names are playing in the market, the game will definitely change.

It seems someone that would want to purchase a Tesla is someone who cares more about the technology than they care about the issues you highlighted above. A friend of mine that purchased a Tesla told me that he would buy a Tesla even if it was an ICE, because he thinks of it more as a piece of transportation for his software than a car.

 

[Mike]

We found the ride on the Model X to be too uncomfortable. It felt like a tin box on hard wheels. Felt every bump in the road. The comfort of the E-Tron in incomparable. That said, I feel like Audi charges you for things that other manufacturers include with the purchase.

 

[Yan]

What swayed me from Tesla Model Y was road and wind noise plus too firm of a ride.
between these, i could not relax in the car, nor listen to the music at any reasonable volume

Tesla has far better computer, User Experience and drive train.
They just need to sort out qc, noise, vibration and other small but annoying issues and also get customer service up to par

I’m rooting for them to succeed...

 

[polyphonic]

I’m a huge Tesla fan (and owner for a few more days), but there is something very promising about Audi’s capabilities as a pure EV: charge network.

Bjorn Nyland’s 1000km test shows that with a robust network the e-tron can hang with the Taycan and Model 3 for distance travel.

Once VW gets some more cars on the road (e.g. ID4) they will have a greater incentive to improve Electrify America. More charge stations paired with the e-tron’s incredible charge curve will make range a complete non-issue.

As for Tesla, they should take notes from Audi about how to build a decent car instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[MegeTron]

@polyphonic to amplify your point on Tesla taking notes on how to build a decent car...https://electrek.co/2020/10/05/tesla-model-y-roof-fall-off/

 

[polyphonic]

Yep, been seeing that everywhere. Both hilarious, and terrifying at the same time. Hopefully nobody was injured.

 

[Sonofvi]

What swayed me from Tesla Model Y was road and wind noise plus too firm of a ride.
between these, i could not relax in the car, nor listen to the music at any reasonable volume

Tesla has far better computer, User Experience and drive train.
They just need to sort out qc, noise, vibration and other small but annoying issues and also get customer service up to par

I’m rooting for them to succeed...

Seems that software is great but Tesla
needs to figure out how to manufacture a quality consumer car. I actually like Musk much less than I like his cars and I have never considered a Tesla, primarily because of the quality issues mentioned by others.

 

[JNealCox]

Unfortunately, there is a disincentive for Tesla to focus on quality. The company is actually a Financial Energy Credit company. It has never turned a profit based on car sales. The cars are sold at a loss. Any profit has been due to the selling of energy credits it receives for being an all EV company. The number of credits it receives is based on the volume of cars it sells. Other car companies buy these credits to off set emission penalties. As long as people are willing to deal with terrible quality, Tesla will focus on churning out as many cars as it can, regardless of quality.

 

[Electric]

I liked the Tesla from the outside and inside on short inspections. The magic of the doors and the individual seats in the 6x configuration on the X is great. Then I went to a dealer and also got some more time with it. I just wasn't ready for the dealer model (and their disinterest in me as a customer), nor the quality control issues that clearly had made it to the cars I was in. The owners I know accepted a period of time to remediate, fix, or "Live with", but I don't really want to live with gaps and in particular poor paint. Also, I don't really have the time to stress or fix issues; there's an Audi dealer near me, if it does have issues, at least I can take a bus home or a loaner!

Finally, I love new technology and agree that without Tesla there would be no/less other electric cars. Well done Tesla for pushing the market and maintaining presently the battery and performance edge, but I really don't like the online community and perceived 'Tesla is best'. I'm happy to blend in with the Audi that doesn't mark me out. These are all expensive cars, but something about the Tesla mindset grates with me and let's be honest, Elon can be a real piece of work, no matter how much his businesses (e.g. SpaceX) are great.

 

[Mike]

When we test dove a Model X and complained about the bumpiness of the ride to the salesrep, his reply was, "Hmm, no one else has complained about it." When we asked if there was another setting or something that would be better he said, nope, that's what you get. Of course the best part was getting a survey later asking what I thought of my experience.

 

[SoCaleTron]

A little rant.

I was on the fence between the e-tron and Model X, ultimately my decision was based on the following:
1. Financials. Big discounts, still eligible for the $7,500 tax credit and $2,500 rebate (available in Texas), 0% financing.
2. Fit and finish. Audi already is known for having top notch interiors and fantastic build quality. The reliability of this car is still unknown, but so far so good and honestly when compared to Tesla, the Tesla looks and feels like a toy.
3. Reliability. As I mentioned above, the reliability of the e-tron still needs time and miles to prove out how good it is, but when you research the reliability of Tesla, I would not put my family in one of those cars until they sort out some very concerning issues. Obviously, you have issues with the doors, the suspension and many cases of replacing batteries early on under warranty. Those are par for the course for a mass produced car and I'm not surprised that there are issues with those cars. The one that swayed my decision was the control arm issue as highlighted very well here: Tesla's Suspension Issues Get Terrifying At 200 Km/h On Autobahn. There are many cases of this type of failure and this is the kind of catastrophic failure that should warrant a recall.

We are 2,000 miles in with our e-tron and the most frustrating things that we have experienced to date is the MMI system sometimes setting to guest automatically rather than me or my wife, sometimes Android Auto acts a little weird, and the fact that the back seat doesn't recline, meaning that our child's carseat doesn't recline all the way. To me, minor complaints when weighed against ALL of the amazing things we enjoy about this car. I came from a Subaru Outback and our other car is an Infiniti QX60. I am a car fanatic, but over the past 5 years I've lost my passion for cars, opting for the "logical" choice over a passionate choice. This car has re-ignited my passion and obsession for cars and I can tell you that as long as no major reliability issues come about with this car, I am committed to the Audi brand for life.

I’ve had my First Edition just over a year and have a little more ver 6k mikes. While there have been a few quirks along the way, they have all been worked out fairly easily. I expected as much thigh with a first edition vehicle. Audi service always makes it as pain free as possible and very good to work with. I said after the first few months that this was the dream car I didn’t know I wanted. I test drove numerous luxury EVs and nothing came close. Hope you continue enjoying.