Anyone else receive this? Pretty alarming.
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Charging Cable Recall
Perception
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Neh, they won't even be electrocuted if they chew on it while the EV is charging. GFCI in the EVSE will just shut down the power to the damaged cable, no burning down the house.
Technically that depends on which part they gnaw on. The GFCI in the EVSE only protects the cable going to the car. If they attack the pig tail, there is no protection. Only GFCI in the outlet or breaker would protect that part.
True, but the comment was about a hardwired EVSE outside, where the part before EVSE should be protected from outdoor factors like rats (hidden inside walls, in a conduit,etc.).
Apparently, you and my electrcian differ on this. I have a 50 amp circuit. I can put a 20A breaker on that, if I want. All a "50 A circuit" means is that the line has the capacity to carry up to 50A with a reasonable thermal tolerance.
A couple of questions here. I saw someone earlier in this thread post that their dealer would not sell them their used e-tron as CPO because of the recall. I think I also saw a post in another thread where an Audi dealer was ready to sell a used e-tron to a buyer but Audi would not let them sell it at all because of this recall. I wonder if this means that used e-trons will become less common because Audi dealers can't sell them? Will Audi dealers offer less for e-trons traded in because they know they can't sell them right away? Will Audi dealers start selling e-trons they take in trade to used car dealers because the Audi dealers can't sell them?
A similar issue happened with Chevy Bolts. With their battery recall, Chevy dealers could not sell used Bolts until their battery was replaced, but other dealers could. I bought mine in 2021 from a Kia dealer.
A similar issue happened with Chevy Bolts. With their battery recall, Chevy dealers could not sell used Bolts until their battery was replaced, but other dealers could. I bought mine in 2021 from a Kia dealer.
I think we are now looking into a very deep rabbit hole, but based on my very limited reading and understanding:
1) Conventional magnetic circuit breakers protect best against sudden surges in current. They protect poorly or not at all against sustained “just a little too much” situations.
2) There are other types of circuit breakers that might be more appropriate, such as thermal magnetic breakers. I don’t have a clue if these are approved for use in residential settings.
3) I really get the feeling that the whole industry is making this up as we go. The US residential electrical power system isn’t really set up for this.
1) Conventional magnetic circuit breakers protect best against sudden surges in current. They protect poorly or not at all against sustained “just a little too much” situations.
2) There are other types of circuit breakers that might be more appropriate, such as thermal magnetic breakers. I don’t have a clue if these are approved for use in residential settings.
3) I really get the feeling that the whole industry is making this up as we go. The US residential electrical power system isn’t really set up for this.
You are correct about your line being able to carry 50A and yes, you are able to put a smaller breaker on such line by code. I've done it many times, typically running a one larger gauge wire that required for a particular breaker. However, in my case I needed a 100A circuit for 80A EVSE for example, so I ran a 120A+ circuit, put a 100A breaker on it, EVSE draws 80A sustained (a long time as it sometimes charges 3 cars, 80A split between them, with 2 of them able to use 80A all to themselves if others are done) - a government inspector which came to inspect my home install called it "overengineered" but of course overengineered does not fail inspections
. In your case the issue is that you are in fact planning to use 100% of the breaker's current rating for hours at a time, for which the breaker is not rated for. Will it fail, maybe, maybe not - depending on build quality of a particular breaker, ambient temperatures, how hot the breakers next to it get, and how long you charge at a time.I think I get your electrician's rationale to try to protect your circuit from >40A even for short bursts. It sounds like a good idea, but he might not have considered the breaker rating. The overengineered solution for you would be a 62.5A+ circuit with 50A breaker drawing 40A. At least you know your wiring it ok to handle the 40A load, though technically an overheating breaker could start heating the wires up too.
There is definitely some of that, but given Tesla has already figured out a good compromise for home charging (just like they figured out DC charging better than the rest of the industry), why do companies fight it? The solution is simple:
- plug-in chargers only up to 32A on outlets like NEMA 14-50 or 6-50
- >32A requires hardwiring by an electrician
- stop shipping ANY EVSE's with cars (think iPhones, no need to include a power brick) - people will buy one separately which matches their needs, and more and more will already have one
Packrats are very determined critters. But my comment was in jest.
Although there is an argument to be made that there are many other household risks that exceed having an EV burst into flame while charging in the garage, but the toasty EV certainly makes the news!
Not quite right. The Quattro into the 2022 MY is being recalled for TWO reasons: 1) the recall on the Audi compact EVSE (it really is not a recall on the car itself); 2) the recall on the battery for risk of fires. ALL Compact EVSE's are being recalled for Recall 1, regardless of what car it came with. For Recall 2), Audi is freezing sales of used Quattro's that are affected by the battery problem, so that is the recall to which your dealer is talking about. Audi has workarounds for the compact EVSE problem, but I don't know how widespread they have become.
You are correct about your line being able to carry 50A and yes, you are able to put a smaller breaker on such line by code. I've done it many times, typically running a one larger gauge wire that required for a particular breaker. However, in my case I needed a 100A circuit for 80A EVSE for example, so I ran a 120A+ circuit, put a 100A breaker on it, EVSE draws 80A sustained (a long time as it sometimes charges 3 cars, 80A split between them, with 2 of them able to use 80A all to themselves if others are done) - a government inspector which came to inspect my home install called it "overengineered" but of course overengineered does not fail inspections
I think I get your electrician's rationale to try to protect your circuit from >40A even for short bursts. It sounds like a good idea, but he might not have considered the breaker rating. The overengineered solution for you would be a 62.5A+ circuit with 50A breaker drawing 40A. At least you know your wiring it ok to handle the 40A load, though technically an overheating breaker could start heating the wires up too.
Well, I've been using this 40A breaker for over 4 years with no hint of a problem. Maybe my electrcian is very good at picking out 40 A breakers.
Could be a good batch of breakers, could be you never charge for 6-8 hrs in hot summer conditions, could be it doesn't get super hot in the summer in your garage, could be the breaker is next to other breakers barely used which act as a heat sink. It's about probabilities and risk management. Some people string together extension cords and splitters and swear it never caused them any issues. Some people drive without insurance all their preach how paying for insurance is a scam. Some people drive without fastening seatbelts and swear by it. We all choose a level of acceptable risk we're comfortable with. Personally when it comes to safety I prefer the slightly overengineered vs. minimal or no safety margin, but that's me, and my personal preference. Regulations typically aim at some minimal safety margin.
Wow, thanks so much for that answer. I've been doing a good amount of research on the 2019 e-tron and did not even know about the battery recall! Now I will have to search that information down. Has it been discussed here extensively?
Update: My electrician changed my setup and now it is hardwired. He had to install a junction box because the existing cable was only long enough to reach my prior 14-50 box. I just started charging and all looks good. I also changed the max in the Emporia app to 48A (since it's feeding a 60A circuit). My Emporia app shows it charging at around 9.5kW. I know that with a hardwire the max charging rate is 11.5kW, but am I right that I won't always get that rate? Silly question, but what impacts the charging rate?
Air conditioning, pool heaters, inline water heaters, floor heating ... these are all things that have been around for a long time, and have high current requirements.
My water heater is 24 kW across two 240V circuits, for example.
The industry, and standards, know how to do this; whether a practitioner who typically installs lamp cord for ceiling fans will be all up to date, might depend on their particular tolerance for continuous learning...
24kW heater? Wow. I thought my 6kW hot tub was bad. I had to install solar panels to justify it. And then I had to buy an EV since I had solar panels… 🙄
But I have pondered why the installers put a junction box under the moveable plastic steps right next to the thing, and neglected to install a shutoff anywhere. But at least it has a GFCI at the circuit panel about 150 feet away.
So I hear you loud and clear about individual competence. And attention to detail.
But the available talent pool is part of the preparedness for this enterprise, or lack thereof.
But I have pondered why the installers put a junction box under the moveable plastic steps right next to the thing, and neglected to install a shutoff anywhere. But at least it has a GFCI at the circuit panel about 150 feet away.
So I hear you loud and clear about individual competence. And attention to detail.
But the available talent pool is part of the preparedness for this enterprise, or lack thereof.
That could change the risk profile for charging in the garage! Fortunately for me, my 2022 Q4 quattro isn't included. For now. So I won't have to remove my meticulously installed ChargePoint EVSE from my garage.
Winston Churchill: "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result".
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