[LoraK]

It's well known that EV battery performance suffers in the cold. It WILL be better in warmer weather.

For context, here's some chatter about how Q4s are faring in extreme cold:

https://www.e-tronforum.com/threads/frigid-weather-running.6800/#replies

Getmoving - I get that EV battery performance suffers in the cold. All I am advocating for is educating new buyers. And not making false claims - like, range anxiety is a thing of the past, as our dealer said to us. We all need to advocate for better education BEFORE people buy EV vehicles. That should be table stakes. See this: Attaching EV chargers to utility poles is cheap, easy — and illegal in Massachusetts - The Boston Globe "The transportation sector accounts for 39 percent of the Mass state’s emissions, and convincing almost 1 million drivers to go electric by 2030 is a key part of the plan to slow climate change. But drivers thinking of switching cite a lack of charging as one of their major concerns, along with the relatively high price of EVs." I am on board to support this initiative - hence why we bought an EV vehicle. But EV car makers and dealers need to set the educational standards high - not low, to ensure people make confident decisions.

 

[rdgrimes]

Salespeople are apt to fluff, inflate, misrepresent and downright lie to make a sale??!!! I'm shocked --- shocked I say. Call the media, call the cops, call your mom......

Uneducated, unprepared buyers of ANYTHING don't get to whine about their remorse after the fact.

 

[RMSko]

Getmoving - I get that EV battery performance suffers in the cold. All I am advocating for is educating new buyers. And not making false claims - like, range anxiety is a thing of the past, as our dealer said to us. We all need to advocate for better education BEFORE people buy EV vehicles. That should be table stakes. See this: Attaching EV chargers to utility poles is cheap, easy — and illegal in Massachusetts - The Boston Globe "The transportation sector accounts for 39 percent of the Mass state’s emissions, and convincing almost 1 million drivers to go electric by 2030 is a key part of the plan to slow climate change. But drivers thinking of switching cite a lack of charging as one of their major concerns, along with the relatively high price of EVs." I am on board to support this initiative - hence why we bought an EV vehicle. But EV car makers and dealers need to set the educational standards high - not low, to ensure people make confident decisions.

I think you're spot on. I bought my '24 Q8 SB in October and I had no idea that the battery range suffers significantly in the cold. I'm not saying I wouldn't have bought the car - there's a good chance I would have - but I also would have looked around for alternatives with more range like a Lucid Air (although given some of the financial issues I've heard about Lucid I don't know if I would've taken the leep).

 

[coski]

I suspect we are starting crossing the Chasm. The buyers are going to get different. Car companies need to be selling differently.

I agree, but unfortunately neither the product nor the public fast charging infrastructure are ready for the early majority to jump in without carefully considering their use case. And as @LoraK points out, the dealers don't do a very good job of matching their product to the consumer's needs.

Although we like our e-tron, I have advised good friends not to buy an EV because it isn't well-suited to their lifestyle. Why? Because they are always rushing, always late, and frequently drive distances of 100 miles or more in the public charging wasteland of the Upper Midwest. EVs are well-suited for local driving and overnight L2 charging in a private garage. For anything more than that, if you aren't a planner you are likely to be disappointed.

 

[getmoving]

Yes, I think it’s important to set realistic expectations before investing in an EV. And irrespective of what the enthusiasts claim, long-distance travel remains difficult. I can’t claim much personal experience because in our first year of EV ownership we haven’t attempted anything more ambitious than a city to city round trip of about 100 miles, on an Interstate Highway. Otherwise our Q4 gets used strictly in town.

From my travels in virtual space, and scouting from my gas burners in real space on recent travels, I think anytime you get off the Interstate system or face challenging conditions, the difficulty skyrockets.

DC Charger availability becomes sparse at best on US Highway routes and nonexistent on secondary highways. Throw cold and wind into the mix, and especially mountains, and I think some routes just aren’t possible. Sometimes it’s hard to find a gas station. EV charger? Hah. IMO it’s just not very practical to choose a route twice as long to ensure access to EV chargers.

I’m speaking specifically to the current situation in northern New Mexico, with desired travel into mountainous areas of NM and Colorado. No doubt it’s better in areas with higher EV adoption and more pressure for infrastructure development.

But when we started traveling by car to the mountain west, and especially when we moved here from the upper Midwest, we had to completely change our habits for fueling our vehicles. Oh, you mean there’s not a clump of gas stations every 5-10 miles on this highway? If we start with half a tank, we might actually run out of gas before we find ANY gas station?! Yikes! Fueling an EV just takes it to a whole new level.

After risking my neck climbing some remote 14,000 foot peak, the last thing I want to worry about is whether I can get back home in my car. And if I am traveling with family, that compounds my risk assessment by an order of magnitude. I can’t even imagine traveling by EV with a young family, except strictly on Interstate highways.

That’s the part of this story that makes me angry. For some reason, we allow car salespeople to be predatory slime. But this particular slime ball was told you would be traveling with your family!

 

[WetEV]

When I got my 2019 etron quattro, the sales rep indeed set up a full afternoon meeting between me and a tech to train me on how to use the car. Those "courses" are already here!

I don't remember any training on details of road tripping an EV. My afternoon meeting was with the salesman. I suspect I could have taught him about road tripping in an EV, as he wasn't an electric car guy. It was clear he had never even played with the EV trip planner before our first meeting.


Did learn all about driver assist settings and assorted other technical details. He was good for that.

 

[JNealCox]

I don't remember any training on details of road tripping an EV. My afternoon meeting was with the salesman. I suspect I could have taught him about road tripping in an EV, as he wasn't an electric car guy. It was clear he had never even played with the EV trip planner before our first meeting.


Did learn all about driver assist settings and assorted other technical details. He was good for that.

It is an unfortunate fact that most staff at Dealerships have little experience with EV's.

 

[ace10]

Cold weather is not to be trifled with.

 

[LoraK]

I agree, but unfortunately neither the product nor the public fast charging infrastructure are ready for the early majority to jump in without carefully considering their use case. And as @LoraK points out, the dealers don't do a very good job of matching their product to the consumer's needs.

Although we like our e-tron, I have advised good friends not to buy an EV because it isn't well-suited to their lifestyle. Why? Because they are always rushing, always late, and frequently drive distances of 100 miles or more in the public charging wasteland of the Upper Midwest. EVs are well-suited for local driving and overnight L2 charging in a private garage. For anything more than that, if you aren't a planner you are likely to be disappointed.

@coski I am grateful for you and the advice and support you give to your friends. What I am advocating for - call me a purpose-driven whiner to slightly misquote @rdgrimes , is more transparency from the EV companies in communicating that same message to prospective buyers. At this point, I know that I can't return the etron (actually, I can but don't want to lose $25K in the process, so I decided not to).

What I am hoping we all do is make EV manufacturers and dealers explain the EV nuances as part of the selling process. At some point in the future, this won't be an issue - to get there, we need to get more people on board. But not by withholding info, and in the process misinforming them. Like the Fair Credit and Charge Card Disclosure Act of 1988 Why we’re modernizing how we collect credit card data | Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

Yes, some buyers won't buy now, but eventually this transparency will create more trust, more fair business practices, more confident buyers, and drive more innovation in battery development, charging, etc.. Perhaps this is an opportunity for Audi to step in and set that standard and in the process - win in the long haul.

Should I and my family have done more research before we bought the etron? It surely seems so. Did we have the reason to do so, when I personally had 100% trust in the Audi brand and swore I won't even buy any other car brand after owning and driving one for 8 years? Not really. Did I think that by buying a car from Audi, should I decide to return it after less than 2 weeks, it would lose almost a third of its value? No. What does that say about the quality of the car if indeed it loses almost a third in its value as it leaves the dealership?

My dealer had experience with EVs @JNealCox - he owns one, and said he has been selling these cars a lot, and so knowledgeable, that some families have asked him to be their ongoing mentor on how to use the cars. Not trying to throw the dealer under the bus - I don't expect him to go out of the way and against how Audi has trained their dealers.

It should not come down to individual dealers or dealerships - transparency on how batteries perform under various conditions, including variances in charge times, charging options, etc., should be something that the car manufacturers are responsible for. The responsibility is top down, otherwise it doesn't work.

 

[getmoving]

Not trying to throw the dealer under the bus - I don't expect him to go out of the way and against how Audi has trained their dealers.

I see no evidence Audi has trained their US dealers on EVs. They certainly haven't trained them on how to service them.

 

[LoraK]

I see no evidence Audi has trained their US dealers on EVs. They certainly haven't trained them on how to service them.

Ok @getmoving another area for improvement then

 

[generalmilk]

Yes, I think it’s important to set realistic expectations before investing in an EV. And irrespective of what the enthusiasts claim, long-distance travel remains difficult. I can’t claim much personal experience because in our first year of EV ownership we haven’t attempted anything more ambitious than a city to city round trip of about 100 miles, on an Interstate Highway. Otherwise our Q4 gets used strictly in town.

From my travels in virtual space, and scouting from my gas burners in real space on recent travels, I think anytime you get off the Interstate system or face challenging conditions, the difficulty skyrockets.

DC Charger availability becomes sparse at best on US Highway routes and nonexistent on secondary highways. Throw cold and wind into the mix, and especially mountains, and I think some routes just aren’t possible. Sometimes it’s hard to find a gas station. EV charger? Hah. IMO it’s just not very practical to choose a route twice as long to ensure access to EV chargers.

I’m speaking specifically to the current situation in northern New Mexico, with desired travel into mountainous areas of NM and Colorado. No doubt it’s better in areas with higher EV adoption and more pressure for infrastructure development.

But when we started traveling by car to the mountain west, and especially when we moved here from the upper Midwest, we had to completely change our habits for fueling our vehicles. Oh, you mean there’s not a clump of gas stations every 5-10 miles on this highway? If we start with half a tank, we might actually run out of gas before we find ANY gas station?! Yikes! Fueling an EV just takes it to a whole new level.

After risking my neck climbing some remote 14,000 foot peak, the last thing I want to worry about is whether I can get back home in my car. And if I am traveling with family, that compounds my risk assessment by an order of magnitude. I can’t even imagine traveling by EV with a young family, except strictly on Interstate highways.

That’s the part of this story that makes me angry. For some reason, we allow car salespeople to be predatory slime. But this particular slime ball was told you would be traveling with your family!

If you made it to the peak, then there is a big chance you can make it back with regen. Steal some big rocks to increase the amount of energy you can generate going down, jk.

Not applicable to my adventure to Death Valley though. Luckily I found an outlet in the valley for overnight charging.

 

[getmoving]

Thanks for the primer on gravity, but I have more than enough experience of its effects. 😜

I climb the peaks on foot, but some of the approach roads are just as challenging as the hiking/climbing trails. Former mining roads mostly, and beat to crap by OHVs. My Jeep WK2 has air suspension that can lift it to 11” of ground clearance and skid plates in case I still screw up. Amongst current EVs I wouldn’t attempt some of those “roads” in anything other than a Rivian. And I wonder if those have skid plates. A cracked battery would be a very unfortunate mishap.

To return to subject, some of the gateway towns have EV chargers now, but from reviews they may or may not be working and they are very expensive. So I’ll probably just be burning dino juice on those excursions for the foreseeable future.

 

[WetEV]

Yes, I think it’s important to set realistic expectations before investing in an EV. And irrespective of what the enthusiasts claim, long-distance travel remains difficult.

I’m speaking specifically to the current situation in northern New Mexico, with desired travel into mountainous areas of NM and Colorado. No doubt it’s better in areas with higher EV adoption and more pressure for infrastructure development.

But when we started traveling by car to the mountain west, and especially when we moved here from the upper Midwest, we had to completely change our habits for fueling our vehicles. Oh, you mean there’s not a clump of gas stations every 5-10 miles on this highway? If we start with half a tank, we might actually run out of gas before we find ANY gas station?! Yikes! Fueling an EV just takes it to a whole new level.

Having driven our EV through Taos, NM, I'd agree that your area is sparse at best. Taos wouldn't be realistic unless spending the night there, as there was only L2 charging there at that time. Still isn't a good plan, as is only one 50kW charger in town. Overnight charge works nicely.

As for driving in the Mountain West, yes. My habit of planning trips comes from driving past signs saying no services next 100 miles. Got gas? Got water? Got blankets?

 

[getmoving]

Funny how a widespread arctic blast can raise awareness of otherwise obscure issues:

Why EVs don’t go as far in the freezing cold | CNN Business

One of the biggest concerns car shoppers have about electric vehicles is driving range. It’s even more of a concern when the weather is cold and driving range drops even more.

www.cnn.com

 

[Bamboozle33301]

The point for me is, you can fill up a gas car to a full tank. These cars should get a full charge when they're plugged in, and then you can drive how you like whilst obviously realizing when you're not being efficient and using more power. The problem with my brand new 2024 Q8 is that it says 100% at 235, nowhere near 285 or past 300 where a lot of Q8s seem to charge to. And I live in So Cal, and drive it on efficient. Audi DTLA told me that rolling down the windows was also a culprit in the issue with my battery, when I said I wasn't using the AC.

 

[Bamboozle33301]

The range that shows up will change on how you drive, conditions, etc. Yesterday my car showed 250 mile range at 80% charge but the range went down faster because i drove the car harder. There have been times that the range shows 210 at 80% but it trickles down because of the way I am driving. It is similar to a gas car. For me I do not pay attention to what the range shows but the actual battery percent. I drive a lot more miles than the typical person. I drive 100 miles a day but can do 150. I have never had the need to use a super charger on this car or my previous Q4 that had a lot less range. I charge my car to 80% unless I know I am doing a long trip. I got the car Aug 16, I did not drive it for 1.5 months (I was on vacation) and an additional week while my car was in for service and I put 700 moles on a Q7. I have 10,700 miles and just enjoy the car. I have had the range show 180 miles at 80% charge but as you start driving the range can trickle down, go down normal or faster. I drive with the ac full blast and drive how I feel that day. I know the car has the range I need for 99% of my trips. If I were to do a road trip that was closer to 300 miles or more then I would decide if I want to use super charger or just rent a gas car. Between my previous Q4 and the Q8 I gave put over 37k miles it just over 1 year and I love the EV.

 

[generalmilk]

And the Dealers charging station was indoors? At my Dealers all the charging stations are outdoors. There is absolutely no reason to assume the Dealer's charging station is located in a room heated to a toasty 77F. Even the Waiting Area is colder than that!

Also, were they selling this as a new Q8 etron? Did the other Q8 etrons on the lot also have stickers on the windshield that also posted lower range? If sold as a new car, as getmoving stated above, the Monroney sticker is the Monroney sticker and the EPA range stated there should be achievable under ideal conditions. If the Dealer is try to sell this as a new car, but is arbitrarily tryng to change what is stated on the Monroney sticker (this is why we have Monroney stickers!) then I would contact AudiUSA and complain directly.

It doesn’t even matter if they charge it indoors or not. The GOM depends on the last driving condition. Unless they drive indoors for extensive time and distance, the GOM won’t raise no matter the charging condition.

 

[JNealCox]

It doesn’t even matter if they charge it indoors or not. The GOM depends on the last driving condition. Unless they drive indoors for extensive time and distance, the GOM won’t raise no matter the charging condition.

I think the GOM averages more that just the latest driving condition, but, yes, it would take a few sessions to get the GOM to settle in close to the true SOC.

 

[jim2560]

"When navigation is inactive, the average of the last 100 kilometers (62.1 miles) is applied to determine drive system consumption. Convenience and climate consumption are also assessed. By turning convenience consumers on and off via the range monitor, users can see their direct impact on the range prognosis."

The above is from "Audi has gone electric" website, Electromobility in Winter topic. A good bit of information specific to Audi e models. Appears to have accurate information. Electromobility in winter-Intelligent functions optimize range and charging performance :: electrichasgoneaudi.net